Khatzumoto
Khatzumoto is the force behind All Japanese All the Time, one of the most popular language learning sites on the web, and a personal favorite. He has played a major role in the popularization of SRS among language learners over the last few years. He currently lives in Japan and is studying Cantonese (among other things).
1. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Sure. I have viscous, dark brown earwax… and… no? No?
2. Why did you start studying foreign languages, and how old were you when you started?
I guess technically my first foreign language was French… that started when I was 7 years old… second grade (or “Form 2″, pick your terminology) in school.
So I started because it was in the curriculum.
I know this isn’t in the question, but I took French every year of school up to and including my first year of university. And I did really well. In school. So, supposedly ten years. But I have never been remotely functional in the language. And I went to like “good” schools where parents fork out lots of pieces of paper with heads of state on them; I had teachers from France — the whole shebang. Anyway, my beef with school can wait for another interview. I’ve also visited France like a kajillion times, so there.
People say “oh, well, you should have done XYZ” — well I could have if the school would get the heck out of my way and let me just listen to French rap music but NOOOO, there we were conjugating irregular verbs (“Dr & Mrs. Vandertrampp”) like they’re going out of style.
3. What languages are you studying or have studied? What level of proficiency do you have in those languages now? Why did you choose those languages specifically?
French, Latin, German, Mandarin, Japanese, Cantonese. But only the last three have ever been self-directed. So far, only Japanese has benefited from long, exclusive attention, so… it’s more and more a simulated native language for me.
4. What are you study goals? Do you plan on reaching a certain level of proficiency and then stopping?
Yes and no. I’m excited at the idea that the SRS may give me the power to put a language on the back burner, but still maintain proficiency in it through a small time investment. So, shifting gears, yes. Stopping… perhaps never. I mean… we use language all our lives, right?
Recently I read Talent Is Overrated, and it had a little anecdote that shocked but did not surprise me. Apparently, doctors who’ve been on the job many years were much worse than med students at identifying important stuff (tumors, etc.) in X-rays. What this says to me is: “use it or lose it”.
In fact, the whole “use it or lose it” idea had been an inspiration for me even before reading the book. I have lost the ability to really use two of my three native languages (Swahili and Luo), as well as all the languages I learned in school. This impressed upon me the idea that the mind… the brain… whatever, is a very flexible thing. Change the environment — I mean really change — and you change the brain. Or something like that.
5. How do you define fluency? What is the minimum level of proficiency you would consider necessary before saying that you “knew” a language?
Yeah, “fluency” is a slippery one, or at least it seems to be. I hadn’t realized it was such a loose word, till, you know, I used it on my site [great site, by the way], and then I would read these forums, because I ego-surf, and they were like “That kid is full of crap! He used the ‘f’ word! I hear he pees in the shower”, you know…all these things that only people who see me shower would know. Anyway, for me, minimum proficiency would be read aloud and comprehend a newspaper. Yeah… that would be the bare minimum.
But, perhaps a better definition would be… to understand and be understood, in whatever contexts I need and want (?).
Still no good. I’ll wait for someone else to give a really good definition then be all “me too”.
6. Can you briefly describe your study workflow?
I just do whatever. Seriously, whatever I feel like; it’s not really work. My computer automatically brings up target-language content throughout the day — movies, radio, TV. Also, I do a main block of SRS reps, and then smaller blocks interspersed throughout the day when I feel like it. I take a book, newspaper cuttings and an mp3 player with me wherever I go. So…yeah, I don’t really “do” that much… I just exist in a framework I’ve created.
It sounds so posh — “a framework I’ve created”. “A synergistic meta-flow of targeted activities”… 
7. What was the biggest mistake you made or misconception you had when you started studying languages? How did you realize it was a mistake?
Far too many. Um… I guess the first mistake was trusting school… the second mistake was not believing in myself, and the third mistake was believing that just because I had done it once before that it would just run like autopilot thereafter. I’ve found I’ve needed to remain alert and engaged despite past “success”, if you want to call it that. I’ve also found that I’ve needed to look more closely at the details of what worked in the past, not just the overall pattern.
As you know, I’m in the somewhat unique position of having “self-taught” one language to proficiency, and then having explained the process in some detail in writing. But… you know, ironically… having developed (well, slapped together) and successfully executed a process that worked… this sometimes leads me to (incorrectly) think that the process is or was more or less perfect. The process, as I am constantly learning, was and is actually a compromise. Its perfection was in its imperfection. A lot of the techniques I use lack the structural perfection I want, but they have always had to either gain or regain the pragmatic perfection of actually being doable and scaleable.
In one of my blog posts on my site [great site, by the way], I once said that when one starts something, one is a baby. I had no idea how true that is until I was there reliving babyhood — doing Cantonese. It’s both humbling and exciting to be a beginner again.
8. If you could pass on only a single piece of advice to other learners, especially learners just starting out, what would it be?
I would say… Oh, crap, only one piece of advice? OK, I would say… Don’t believe in ideas: just use them or don’t use them.
9. What are your future language study plans?
Of course, continue Japanese. Cantonese, Mandarin… maaaaybe Russian… maaaybe. I dunno. Like I’ve talked about before, having a few sharp knives is really important. More concretely, I want to write in what I’ve chosen as my primary languages…
I think too many people are shallow in their language acquisition… a lot of people get good but they don’t get to the point where they’ve really internalized the language and it’s a part of them. And, I think that’s a waste, because there are big rewards to be had when you get really good. You know, like when there is no gap between you and a native user.
I mean, in the proverbial poker game, language skill is still the ace that you have to use well — ever met people who are good at a language but are also self-absorbed jerks? — but… it is an ace. Gosh, I don’t even know how to play card games.
And does this even answer your question? Did I just turn your question into “pontification time”?
OK, let me pontificate some more! We, almost all of us, in the language community, are guilty of underusing our target languages. The only people I know well, who seem to “come correct” as it were, are those AntiMoon boys. Particularly Tomasz there. The rest of us (native users of English)… we use too much English. Now, of course, there are economic reasons but… I think we all need to use our target languages more. Talk about them less, live them more. There. I’m talking about talking about language acquisition.
You like how I don’t even answer your questions?
Quite the contrary, Khatz! I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.
Related posts:
- Interview with Kelly McGuire
- Interview with Steve Kaufmann
- Interview with August Flanagan
- One language or many, take two
- Cantoneasy
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Khatz and his verbal diarrhea always make me laugh, I hope to find the same success he did through his method. I feel its working, constant input seems to be the way to go.
Joe,
I agree. Input is the only way to go, and the more of it you get the faster you’ll progress, so I’d recommend getting as much as you can stand.
Gotta agree with Khatz about the “use it or lose it” thing. I studied French for years and got pretty good, but now I’m nearly back to the bonjour-bonsoir level because I haven’t used it in almost 8 years. Good interview.
Spirit,
My German is unfortunately the same way. One of the things that’s so cool about using SRS in your studies is being able to, at least to some degree, stop actively studying but still maintain a level of capability. I suspect that your output abilities would still go down, but if you kept up your reps (and included listening in the mix) your input abilities could be maintained with very little work.
John,
I would be interested how one can learn characters in an efficient way. What do you think about Khatz’ method (Heisig books plus SRS)? Are there better ways? How do/did you learn characters?
Han-Peter, my response ended up getting really long, so I turned it into a post.